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ydeardorff here

ydeardorff

New member
Hello,

I have been checking out the sterling cars. I like what I see, but I see alot of room for improvement. God forbid if I owned one, Id have to move into the garage. LOL

Ive owned, another VW based kit car called a Bradley GT2. Lets just leave that they are crap, and nearly impossibly to get in and out of. and poorly constructed. And not to mention the Bug isnt a very long term relaible daily driver base car to start with.
Ive owned more than a few of them in my years. I spent more time under them, than in them.

Id like to hear about your experiences in these cars, not only driving them, but building them. Also, practicality, weather proof? Why is the roof so floppy in so many cars when it opens and closes? any body thought about dressing up the the cars rear end. Like so many cars it always seems to get a couple lights slapped on it, and forgot about.

what options are available for the interior?

what about the headlights? options there?

A GT version?

mid engine, water cooled? maybe a Geo metro motor in it? or a hybrid motor system?

functioning windows??? Not pop outs....

is it possible to find one of these for less than 2 or 3 grand?

Also entering and exiting the car,.... My wife is in her 50's, and Im in my late 30's. we're not getting any younger, and a fun daily driver is my goal, that is fun to drive, stunning to look at, and easy to get in and out of. Oh yeah,... and reliable for every day use.

I love the look of the white car that was in your sold list, the jet black one, ans especially the red rotory one.




Please tell me more, I'm very interested!

Thank you
 
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ydeardorff

New member
One idea I had for the car was to install actuall doors (lambo type of course), with power windows. Then make a power retractable targa roof that would self stow away at the press of a button.

My bradley GT2 has the same type of windows, they dont work very well in summer heat!

pop up Hid Headlamps taken from the ferrari headlight mod usually done on a toyota MR2.

possibly, another rx-7 swap with 911 transaxle.

Make all vents and body scoops functional

4 wheel disk brakes

Just for starters.... LOL
 

letterman7

Honorary Admin
Ambitous ideas for a car that's nearly 40 years old. Finding a car in your price range is surprisingly easy, but it will more than likely need a bit of work. Like any kit car, Bradley included, you can do any modification that your wallet and build ability will allow. There were only a few variations in body panels, so anything else would be up to you to create and build. In many cases the builders just want to 'get the car done' to be able to drive it, and integrating lights and any other modifications to look like they 'belong' on a production vehicle get thrown out the window.
Options for interiors, lights and whatever else are up to you. Opening windows - real ones - are out of the question unless you perform some serious body modifications...the lambo doors you mentioned. As it stands, the canopy depth and angle just won't hold the window depth and mechanism. Simple as that. But, if you're going to go as far as a lambo modification, then you take the essence out of the car itself - the canopy. If you were to do that, you'd be better off with a Cimbria and gullwing doors. And I have heard of guys putting functioning windows in those.
Engine options are again up to you. FWD drivetrains have been looked at in the past, but I don't know of anyone who has successfully put one in. The body mechanics and size always come into play trying to fit other engines in place.
Entering and exiting? Not easy as you get older, or indeed graceful. It takes a bit of practice! But if you watch the cars coming up for sale, in many cases they are owned by older gentlemen who just can't perform the acrobatics anymore to exit the car.

I'm certainly not meaning to try to discourage you from finding a car. Your plans are grand, much like one of our other members on here. The problem with having such plans is execution. Like so many other kits that are unfinished that come up for sale, the owners try to modify or improve the car in ways that it just wasn't designed for, and wind up spending a ton of money and time and finally get frustrated when they realize that it just simply isn't going to work. Unless you have an engineering background or have access to a high quality automotive CAD program to work out the logistics, dreams like that can quickly become a nightmare.

Rick
 
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thestevie

Member
if you don't want to be hated i wouldn't put regular doors on it.
i think that would be the easiest way to make other owners hate you.

i'm thinking about cutting some of the body off and adding it to the canopy
the plan is to make it easier for me to get into the car and to have roll-down windows
 

farfegnubbin

Site Owner
Staff member
Ydeardorff,

First of all, welcome! *hi-ya* We are sincerely happy to have you here. It's always cool to have a relatively new enthusiast and to hear their ideas and listen to their enthusiasm.

Secondly, for clarification, no-one here would hate you for attempting conventional doors. This is a forum where any ideas are welcome to be explored in a friendly way. It's 100% true, though, that the ridiculously impractical canopy is actually the single biggest crowd-pleaser onthe car, and to do away with it would be to lose one of the most iconic peices of the puzzle. Beyond that, if you could get conventional doors to work, I'd be nothing but impressed with your creative contribution.

Letterman7 (Rick) summarized things very well. Absolutely anything COULD be done to these cars, but some modifications are realitively easy whereas others should be considered horridly impractical to the point of being essentially impossible.

Headlights, taillights, and the dash are very readily modified and have traditionally been areas where builders add their own unique flair to the cars. It's a delicate balancing act, though. What many builders find is that it is suprisingly difficult to add taillight/headlights, etc. in a manner such that they look sexy, "intentional," and non-kit-car-ish. You're exactly right in observing that it's way too easy for a builder to just "slap on" different taillights, etc, as sometimes happens. But yes, it takes some true artistry to really graft in some modern lights in a stylish and tasteful way. (Though I must say, I'm proud to see some of the wonderful things various builders are doing right now. There are a good hadful of builders who are doing things just right.) But that is one of the joys of the car: It ends up being your unique piece of art. Every Sterlig is different from every other Sterling.

Regarding the canopy...the canopy of a Sterling is dreadfully impractical, and yes, it's hard to get it weathertight...but on the other hand...my god does it make spectaters smile! And if set up correctly, it opens very smoothly and difinitively. All of the raw materials are there to make it operate in a very "real" and believable, "production car" manner. It just takes careful detailing and a little calibration. The canopy, hinges, etc, were actually engineered in a very clever way and operate very well. Don't think that the canopy was done as a chinsy afterthought. It's actually quite clever.

And another thing about the canopy that isn't often said out loud is that, although the canopy seems a little silly and impractical in SOME ways, it is actually a very good solution to a major problem. Namely, it is often very difficult to get into or out of a car that has a very low roofline. It's a price you pay for that particualr aspect of being exotic. And as such, the canopy is actually a nearly perfect solution to an extremely roofline that is almost a full FOOT lower than a Corvette. I've been told that the guys who have Cimbrias (which for purposes of this discussion are essentially a gull-winged Sterling) often feel like they are "crawling out" of their cars. Yes, there is a learning curve to entering and exiting a Sterling in a manner that looks graceful, but it's actually very easy once you get the hang of it. I would say the biggest hurdle for someone with any sort of limited mobility is in getting back out of the car. The well that you sit in is fairly deep, and you have to lift yourself out of it by doing kind of a little push-up on either side of the seat. But beyond that, it's rather elegant. You just stand up and swing yourself out. It's not a bad set-up at all. Especially for a car that literally has one of the lowest rooflines on the planet...not exaggerating.

As for engine and chassis options...

The Bug set-up is elegant in its simplicity in its own right. But it is true that, in a modern context, the old drivetrain is one of the weak areas of the car. But adding a water-cooled engine and upgrading the chassis is very do-able, and many of us have done it. There are different levels of modification, some more ambitious and difficult than others. It's relatively easy to just hang a meduim-size engine off a slightly beefed-up (but otherwise stock) Bug transaxle. And there are a varietly of upgrades for the Bug chassis, from anti-sway bars to urethane bushings to very nice disc brake kits, etc. It's pretty easy to end up with a car with suprisingly good performance. And if you want to go further, you could certainly engineer your own tube chassis for mid- or rear- engine configuration. Dave a Sterling Sports Cars has engineered a few different modern chassis that honestly aren't much short of a true racing chassis. From him, you can just BUY a mid engine chassis with fully adjustable multi-link suspension and modern rack-and-pinion steering, etc. It is very feasible...if you so choose...to end up with a Sterling that wieghs 2000 lbs, has 400 hp, and handles like it's on rails...probably for under $35,000. Or more minimalistically, it's very realistic to end up with a nice Sterling in any comfiguration for $10,000 or less. It just depends on your skills, goals, free time, and money. A Sterling is actually very easy to work on as cars go. But you have to love the process of building/fabrication/creative problem solving (as many of us do).

My advice overall would be this: As you define your goals, don't get too lost in attempting to re-engineer any of the things that make a Sterling a Sterling. Get a targa canopy from Dave (which would give you awesome open-air motoring when you're in the mood), and then put effort into installing A/C rather than wasting even one minute on trying to figure out how to make a roll-down window. (The geometry is absoluetely impossible.) That alone would give you one of the more versatile and comfortable Sterligs around. Give it a nice water-cooled engine if you want. And then use all of your imagination and artistry to give it a really tasteful interior, dash, headlights, and taillights. Those are the goals that would give you the biggest bang for you buck (and your time).

As for the practicality/driving experience.... I love my Sterling to pieces, but, honestly, a Sterling is NOT a practical car. It's a toy. A very enjoyable, unique, incredibly exotic, surprisingly inexpensive toy. But a Sterling just isn't configured to be a practical car. It has NO storage space and never could. It's a little scary to drive in traffic because it is so low. It's a tight squeeze that takes a little getting used to. But who cares about these things. It's fun, and it looks cool, and it generates a buzz.

A person gets very few chances to have/buy/biuld a car that gets as much attention as a Testarossa...for under $10,000.

My advice and challenge to you (or any of us) is to find a Sterling, bring it back to life, and gradually refine it in as many ways as you can. The car doesn't need to be re-engineered. But work on your engine until it is strong and reliable. Work on you interior until a person can't tell "it's a kit car." Give it A/C. Tweak it until it's water-tight. Work on you lights and little styling embelishments until, again, people can't quite figure out if you built the car or whether it just came from some exotic design house from a far off land. ...Or from a purist standpoint, just restore it back to being a beautiful specimen of the very well-built, 37-year-old kit that it is.

A Sterling is not a practical car. But it is a very rewarding project that, without spending a fortune, you can modify to fit you like a glove and have any little styling accents that suite your fancy. If a person wants a MUCH better all 'round daily driver sports car, still for less than a fortune, just get a Corvette that's a few years old. But I guarentee I can make that Corvette seems like it's invisable by parking my Sterling next to it. ;)

You asked a lot of good, general questions. Let us know if you need any more specifics. I'm the guy with the red rotary Sterling, so I'm the default semi-guru on that particular modification.

--Warren / farfegnubbin
 

chazz

New member
well, I'm over 50 (and have a VERY bad back) but I don't find it too difficult to use as a daily driver. Once you get the hang of it you can slip in and out pretty easily. My wife complains just because she's so small she can't see anything out of it!

I have commented numerous times that "of all the cars for me to drive...", but once you've driven a proper Sterling, nothing else comes close. It just makes people happy *laugh*

And if an old coot like me can rebiuld an entire car in 5 months (with an over 52 hr a week job) by himself (plus painting!), then anyone can do it! It's not easy, but well worth it.
 

ydeardorff

New member
Well thank you for all your replies!

I appreciate it.

Firs of all let me shed some light on my overall job/work experience. I am an aircraft structural mechanic for the US Navy. Im 2 years till retirement (20). My job skills are as follows:

sheet metal smith (metal bender)
mechanic Everything from lawn mowers through heavy construction and aircraft
advanced composite techinition (fiberglass/kevlar/carbon fiber construction and fabrication)
hydraulics technician
aircraft and automotive painter
welder (tig, mig and stick welding)
I have gone through courses at ITT for advanced electronics
I have also entirely wired cars from scratch on resto build ups
And I have been doing most of this work starting around 8 years old

Composites are simple, I understand what your saying,... I had grand embitions for my bradley GT2, but as I procured parts, traded my gibson les paul for 2 911 trannies, etc, I began to find the GT2 wasnt a car worth putting all this time into. It was so poorly constructed, windows werent available for it, no parts, sagging fiberglass body parts, misaligned doors, you name it. I would have had to spend years just getting is back to par, before I could even start anything decent.

The only completed mod I did do, was take out the school bus tail lights, yes Im serious they are litterally the red flashing lights from a school bus, nothing exotic looking there... LOL and I filled in the holes and replaced them with Opel Manta tails light lenses.
This mod once completed looked fantastic, and worked well with the GT2's ripped off 308GTB styling.
I had the doors fly open while driving,..... the motor died in the middle of the nevada summer,.... the works. I finally sold it to a kid for what I paid for it, plus a 13B rotory, ith the RX-7's uncut wiring harness, 2 911 trannies, and seats, interior, dash board you name it. He got a steal.

I would like to see a sterling in person to get a first hand look at its construction, as well as, any possibilities of me owning one.


farfegnubbin,
I love the rear of your car around the back window, and I love the idea of the targa. But weather tight is a serious issue here in western washington. Anything that isnt becomes a mold factory quickly.
I love the look of your car, But I was taken aback when I saw the picture of the lebanese person, having the GT version, apparently with very heavy body mods done to it.
I sent a message to the owner of the red one on ebay, but he wasnt willing to trade what I had. LOL

Is there anybody up around everett washington that I could work a deal with, or at least see a sterling in person.

Chazz, I like your headlight mod. I think I would add in that design in a pop up headlight bucket as well. But very nice. I love these cars in black

But I really want to design a power targa roof, I think that would be awesome!

One thought on the canopy seal.

Aircraft use inflatable seals to make things airtight while in flight. Now most automotive seals are hollow by design. So if the lid fit into a groove, and the seal was pressurized with low pressure air it would grab the lip on the lid and force a very tight seal.
It would take a little doing but would make the lid perfectly water tight. the only catch is to ensure proper drain off for water so the lid wouldn't leak when opened or closed.
 
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thestevie

Member
i cant even think about spending 20 years in the US NAVY.

i'm sure you can get weather stripping to put around the canopy to make it more sealed.
 

letterman7

Honorary Admin
Sounds like you've got the right mechanical and electrical backgrounds to make just about anything happen! There are a couple guys in Washington State - Peter Hillyer, who happens to have one of the original Nova's, lives near Redmund, I think. Keith Klein owns a Cimbria, and he's in Edwall and one other fellow that I don't have an email address for. Pete's tough to get a hold of; Keith is readily willing to show his car.
There are more people in Oregon who have cars; Greg Hampton, one of our members here has 6; the previous builder Mike McBride has one he's finishing, I think. Both of those folks are great contacts to talk with. Mike's in St. Helens; Greg's in near Portland.
If you haven't found the sister forum in the UK Euro-Nova - Index page there's one woman there who is also a "rocket scientist" - she has an extreme background in military avionics and materials, and she, too, mentioned possibly fitting an inflatable bladder around the cockpit. Now, that said, I never had any issues with my cockpit leaking except through the keyhole in the overhead latch. I had used a heavier aftermarket seal from JC Whitney of all places, and it was fine.
I know the lebanese car - it looks like the Pagoni from the rear. Heavy mods, for sure, but he also lost the cockpit to do it. While I applaud the builder's glass skills, it comes down to what makes the car what it is - those many modifications lost the essence of a Nova. It's cool, though!

Rick
 
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