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well if no one else will...

kirk

Member
Well if we are going over costs
3.8 supercharged engine(very well built) and transaxle with exhaust 9,200 which includes all wire harnesses for the body and engine and programming of ecu
body with new targa top around 5000
custom made chassis with front suspension and steering somewheres around 5800
gauges around 600
pedals and mas cylinders bout 500
tires and wheels 1600
hydraulic lift round 1200
upgraded brakes for the rear 400
ohhhhhhhhhhh man im starting to get dizzy.*sigh*
havent even touched interior,seats,or paint
keep it simple and your price should stay low. Im just kinda insane when it comes to my builds, hell Ive got over 40k into my jeep with a total ground up custom build.
 

Hogwit

New member
So if you had read my post, you would have understood that some of it, I know ill be doing, some I will.be having someone else do, and now I'm not quite sure on some of it. My thing is I want it to ALL be working and have at least a somewhat nice car without going crazy and that's why I'm considering having a professional wire it, so if something isn't right I can blame them make them.fix it, and have some confidence that iy should last a while.. I know that I will have to get all new interior because all I have is two seats that need new cohate and padding, and a dashboard which I don't like the color of, and since I'm doing everything else on it, why not also redo that (don't want to spend money on an interior to match the dash which I will hate. Also a little off topic here (well very much so) but my father says that we should make it street legal, get it registered and then do the work of interior, exterior, etc. Which means build it up, tear it down, then redo all the work formerly done and on it instead of do the body work, prep it for paint, have it sprayed, and build it up so its nice, and street legal. What do you think? Also being that we will have a professional spraying it, do you think we should remove the body (as my father says), have it sprayed, then reinstalsays, or have them spray it while still on the frame (no opinion on this one other than it more work, so is it worth it)?
 

Hogwit

New member
Another way off topic thing, and this has nowhere to go, are hoods available for the Cimbria type one (shorter doors)? If so how much are they?
 

letterman7

Honorary Admin
but my father says that we should make it street legal, get it registered and then do the work of interior, exterior, etc. Which means build it up, tear it down, then redo all the work formerly done and on it instead of do the body work, prep it for paint, have it sprayed, and build it up so its nice, and street legal. What do you think? Also being that we will have a professional spraying it, do you think we should remove the body (as my father says), have it sprayed, then reinstalsays, or have them spray it while still on the frame (no opinion on this one other than it more work, so is it worth it)?

Yep, I totally agree to make it streetable before doing any kind of major bodywork. The reason behind that is to make sure that everything "settles" into it's regular street stance. You may find a tire rubbing, a body panel flexing or something else weird that you don't want showing up after it's been painted.
As for removing the body for painting... eh... If it's already together and running, it's just that much more work. There isn't really any reason to do it - guys who paint body off already have the body off anyway.


Oh, and the hoods are not available, as are all the rest of the body panels. Finding a wrecked car, someone parting out, or fixing what you have are the only options.
 

Hogwit

New member
His reason is not to be sure nothing is rubbing or flexing, but rather that he just wants to get it registered and be sure there is no paperwork issues with it. We do have braces for it because it flexes in the front and back, I figured out (I think) how to install it in the front, but am very confused about the back, do you have instructions anywhere, or that you can type?
 

letterman7

Honorary Admin
Personally, no, I'm not familiar with how the braces are set. Did you check the tech manual at the top of the forum pages? There is an assembly manual for the SS; I imagine the series 1 Cimbria would be very similar. I did talk to the webmaster about your car - he did say when he gets a few minutes he'll look at his cars to try to clarify issues on the doors.
 

Hogwit

New member
Being that I am on my phone, and in big letters written across is are sterlingkitcars.com I wasnt able to fidn anything regarding braces in those manuals...it might be there however...
 

delbertinie

Member
I will.

I know that I have had my original build (1600dual port bone stock way old) up to 112 MPH bouncing it off the red line (just before the fan belt tore itself apart and my motor almost ripped itself to pieces, oh and this was down hill with a backwind with a friend following for verification). I also remember very clearly the feeling of hitting 70MPH in my car, the car would simply settle into the ground dropping about an inch and a half but it was a little wiggly at those speeds but awesome!!!!.

I have been pulled over EVERY SINGLE TIME I have been behind the wheel of my car, on the open road from LA to San Fran to Vegas to Salt Lake... This includes getting rope-towed at midnight by my GF at the time, to my warehouse to start working on it... never a ticket, one police escort home (my electrical system collapsed at 3am resulting in no lights of any kind, the officer was very nice, most of them just want to know what the hell a long haired kid is doing behind the wheel of this car they know nothing about and thinks is some high-end exotic!).


as for costs... I don't know that a single person that jumps into what we do that wants to actually admit (to themselves mostly or their wives/S.O's really) what we have dumped into these things...

I can toss out a few random numbers for some perspective:
Original Car - $4500.00 (totally built and totally mint but later discovered to contain horrible build quality under the skin resulting in a complete tear down and ditching of the Swing Axle Chassis / Pan)
New Chassis - $2500.00 (fully built IRS based corvair powered baja bug later ditched the engine/trans package due to weight and complexity of servicing the corvair motor)
911 transmission and adapter package - $3500.00 (5 spds is spendy)
Suby STI Engine package - $4500.00 (brand new with full harness / ecu and bits)

so that there is $15000.00 cash.*insane*
and that is all I am going to talk about cause that makes my stomach turn a little...

in fact, I just want to delete this now that I have put those numbers out there. But it's important for the reader to understand that I have had this car for over 10 years. So my investment has been over the span of much time, and I think equal to my investment in coffee... so I don't feel so bad, almost... Also, I quite smoking 4 years ago and in doing so took that 5+ dollars a day and put it into a jar... over the 4 years, I "Earned" my STI Engine, paid for in cash money so I don't even consider that an expense.

8 )

anyone else wanna put up some numbers and make themselves sick?!
*hmmm*
Well guys I'm going to make you all sick....... and maybe mad hehehhe
I traded labour for my cimbria. Gonna spend 200 to 300 dollars on brakes and a carb rebuild and I can liscense it and DRIVE>..
Yes it needs a paint job and the interior needs updating but i can drive it.
And to top it all off it was built by a engineer*na-na-na*
And the engine and the vw pan has 18000 miles on it.

I do my own bodywork, so $1000,00 for paint supplies and $1000. on the interior.
 

vpogv

Active member
Like Rick said, get the sucker road legal and running then tackle projects on it. I would suggest painting the body once mounted to the pan just for simplicity and the fact it takes up 1 garage spot vs. 2.

Let me think through mine:
$3000 - car purchase price
$500 - new pan halves and welder
$200 - new hydraulic pump/lines
$300 - fiberglass, resin and misc. items
$800 - misc. VW parts for chassis
$250 - taillights
$600 - nuts, bolts, sandpaper, paint, etc.
TOTAL: $5650

Still need wiring, new tires, wiper set up, headlights, engine tune up/oils and that's just to get it moving. Add in radio/speakers, sound deadening, interior upholstery and other odds and ends ... I can easily see a $10-12k car.

My wife thinks it's just a pink POS but my son thinks it's cool and can't wait to ride in it one day. *thumbs up*
 

CraigRX7

New member
Im going to hopefully buy/build a Sterling :). First of all the most important question... how fast do they go with the Subaru engine in them? Havent seen any figures, I wouldnt mind doing the occasional weekend at the track. But would be interested to know how well they handle over 100MPH and whats the quickest people have managed to get them up to. Thanks guys!
 

letterman7

Honorary Admin
*oh my* Safely or legally? There was a Eureka at a rally in Oz a year or two ago (thread here Euro-Nova - View topic - Targa Eureka) that seemed to do well until it stuffed into the guard rail on a corner. Even then, he wasn't going all that fast.

I'm sure someone will pipe up who is running a Suby engine to let you know how quickly it gets along, but I doubt you'll find anyone who's run over 100mph. The car becomes a wing above about 80 or so - the nose definitely wants to come up. Add the additional weight to the rear with the engine and you have a seriously unstable car at that point. Can the car be built to go faster than that safely? Probably, but here in the States there isn't anyplace to run that quick, even on a track, unless you set the car to run specifically as a racer or take it to Bonneville in a straight line (wouldn't that be something?!).

Check the Eureka pages here The Eureka Car Club of Australia for folks that might be near you and the UK forum here Euro-Nova - Index page for folks that are actually driving engine modified cars.
 

ydeardorff

New member
Like rick said, "Safely, or legally"?

There is an old adage "speed costs, how much are you willing to spend?"

If your wanting to go fast, like most people do when they first get theses cars, the first thing you must figure out is 1.) can I afford to make this car go fast. 2.) can I afford to make this go fast safely. Understand, every system on this car must be upgraded to an equal extreme, not just the engine and transmission.

If your looking for speed, you must first go mid engine There are two chassis options that I know of. (balancing out the chassis characteristics would be your first priority)
1.) 8K for Dave's tube chassis
2.) 25K for Dave's F1 inspired chassis

Second, The next really serious question you must ask yourself, if your pockets are deep enough to make the sterling a true street legal race car, is "Do I have the skill necessary to drive it like that?"

In most cases, lack of driving skill, and less than deep pockets result compromise.

I have landed the Dream setup as Warren calls it. However, despite my luck in nabbing the WRX turbo engine, complete wiring harness, and legacy trans (for less than 2K), I still have to run it in a rear engine setup due to my pockets being less than deep.

Performance building a WRX engine can run you 8-10K (after you've bought the engine), plus the Dyno tune which for me will run 2,500. Then there is the flipped diff (for the transmission), which is 2K. And that's just the motor and transmission. Any thing over 300hp in this car would result in a nearly undriveable car due to its weight.

I have run the figures on the WRX/Legacy setup, with all the gear ratios, final drives, wheel size, weight, even the presumed drag coefficient applied to the equation. The result is a theoretical red line (in 5th gear) speed of 189 mph with this setup.

But now lets toss a little more reality into this equation.

The sterling is a beautiful kit car. Not a race car. They are very rare by comparison to even some exotic cars. Despite this theoretical speed number, this car is not designed for crashes, even with either of Dave's chassis, this would not be a safe car to drive fast, or race. Nor would you want to. The risk of destroying your prize are too great. If you think about it, how many times have you seen a Lamborghini, Ford GT, or Ferrari going down the freeway speeding? Exotic cars, and even kit cars are too rare, and too expensive to do that with (And the exotic cars are built for speed).

Many hours of cad programming and custom designing go into an exotic car, and race chassis. Safety, and stability are the primary concerns.

The Eureka that was being rallied, was from what I heard nearly a 100,000 dollar car. Yet it was still running a VW drive train. If they had run that rally car with a different drive train they could have probably doubled that monetary figure. Yet with all that engineering, and work applied to the car, its chassis characteristics still put into the wall at a relatively low speed like Rick said.

The longer you have your car, you will see your self going into a mental and emotional transition, from speed, to beauty, and care for the car.

So get her running, and safe, take her out and enjoy her. Let people presume what they want about speed and price. All you have to say is "It's fast enough". Let them think what they want.

Once my car is complete and drivable, I may join in some "spirited driving" on occasion but nothing that will endanger myself, or the car.

There is a video on youtube of a New Zealand rally sprint race that shows the characteristics of this car in cornering. The car not only crashes, rear end first, but also flips onto it roof (No way to get out).
 
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ydeardorff

New member
Here is the video I was talking about:

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W4wdQGqxVEk]HCMC Televised Rallysprint, Part 2 - YouTube[/ame]

Between 7 and 8.5 minutes you'll see the eureka.
 

CraigRX7

New member
Thank you for your input, greatly appreciated. I agree that the car is a thing of beauty, and I would treasure it. I just like the idea of having an exotic car that would be taken out in weekends, and could also do the occasional outing at the track to show it off. Not often people would see these things out, and id feel like it would get more heads turning and people interested at the track days. Id probably go down the custom chassis road, similar to daves, that could accommodate the mid engine, for increased handling. You guys know these cars better than anyone, so communicating with fellow enthusiasts will greatly influence my decisions. Im still young, only 20, so being able to go quick is always an added bonus :). Im sure some of you who are young at heart can understand that :D

- Craig

*Also lucky and manage to have enough free time and spare money
 

Unofun

Member
Sterling true speeds

Ah the good old days! On a cannonball run MANY years ago, a 1776 vw engine with a stock 74 (known as a freeway flier trans after 73) bug tranny with every thing else stock. It ran a regular 132mph top end on the flat areas which was documented in the 80's. It completed the race with no problems. However it was know to be blowing fire out the dual exhausts because of the valves floating @ anything above 130 mph. In the quarter mile with a 1835 bug motor I have seen 10.5 seconds in the quarter mile quite often. The Rx-7 powered sterling was bit slower in the quarter but about 15mph faster in the top end racing at 145 mph tracked @ castle Airforce base run way before it closed before his new exhaust system was blown off by his engine. As he returned it sounded like he was driving an extremely loud chain saw. LOL!

*whaah*
 

Peter

Active member
As was said and from my motorcycle racing tuning days, "We can make it goes as fast as you can afford", If they could drive it was another matter.
I go for 'BLING' now and quick rather than fast.
My SS with a '66 chassis and about 110 BHP 1641 type II lump and well sorted suspension and brakes is a handful over 80 MPH and in the wet, forget it, swaps end in a flash.
I used to rally a rear engine Skoda, now that was fun, only one throttle position, flat out and drift it everywhere but I would like to do it in a Nova/Eagle/Stirling.
Rally 120LS.jpg
 

Unofun

Member
Hmmmm.
I am not sure what you mean by "SS" and yes if you have wide tires on the front YOU will have problems in the rain speeding because all the cars are so incredibly light. ( which makes them extremely fast) BUT If it is raining outside I can stop much sooner in a Semi truck ! And it is not because of the brakes, it is because of the hydroplaning involved, so definitely use narrower tires up front. And you said it was a 1966 which means it had a swing axle rear suspension which means the camber can NOT be put right or level ever because the car has been lowered. The rear didn't work well at speed even with the stock 66 bug!
I would not drive one like that over 70 when dry out and not over 60 if it was raining or wet out. As for the 1641 motor, I can not believe in anyway that you could get over 100 bph in anyway as I have built racing vw engines for years no matter which carbs, cams, ect. that you use.
And once again with a swing axle tranny you would not have the gearing to go over 80 with out blowing up the motor soon anyway... Now with the 2275cc type 1 and a freeway flyer transmission that I have in one car that is a whole different story. And Norm's mid engine corvair sterling is even faster yet!

That is why all eleven of the sterlings I own are 69 or later suspensions (I prefer 73 or later for freeway flyer trannys) and they actually drive a bit BETTER when over 60 because of down force on the body.

I don't mean to disagree with you and I hope I didn't offend you, BUT after owning 38 sterlings over the years, and working on many I DO know what I am talking about. And yes, I have auto crossed, driven @ Infineon raceway, and Laguna raceway in the past with sterlings.

Oh, and the alum v-8 Soveran that is now in England I never had the guts to SEE how fast that would do! My wife still laughs at the flames coming out the exhaust as she followed me home one afternoon, and how it sounded as loud as being next to a indy car in the pit.*explitive rant*

Greg Hampton
 

Peter

Active member
SS, = Eagle SS in the UK (and here in Spain with me) similar to the Cimbria which is the original gull wing door USA model.

Yet to try my 225/65R15 fronts (255/65R15 rear) in the wet, thankfully we don't do wet very much in Southern Spain.:cool:

Craig, my 1641cc is up there in the 100bhp+ range, but nothing is standard apart from the dizzy drive with a 1302 gearbox converted to swing. I have tuned many, many lots, loads of racing motors, both bike and car over the past 50 years from 49cc with Garelli to big CanAm V8s at McLaren-Elva at the Trojan works from the mid 60s.

The Skoda I posted was a 1200cc Estelle in full rally trim and with a group A tune and 44 DRLA DellOrto, it was also in the 100bhp plus range, not too fast but bloody quick as it was mostly winding tracks and forest stages.*going for a drive**yipes*

I see a preference in the US for mainly larger engines, ("No sub' for cubes", I think they say), where as in Europe we tend to wring every ounce of power from smaller engines. With certain 2.4L, 90 degree, V8s pumping out close to 1,000 (before restriction), I don't see the problem with 120+ from a 1641cc.*rock on*
 
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