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New to Sterling, now filled with desire

chromecarz00

New member
Howdy,

I recently stumbled across Sterling while on my quest for a new car and simply put, fell in love. While I've seen them in the distant past, I don't know of any owners or cars near me, so I have to instead rely on your expertise to answer all of my questions. By the way, awesome community - seems very friendly and informative, and I hope to be a part of the owner's club soon.

I've drawn inspiration from the following videos:
[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eaGNSddRnV4]Classic kitcars sebring kit car sterling nova kitcar inc no lamborghini countach - YouTube[/ame]
[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JSaYaIuniNM]Sterling GTR Reconstruction project - YouTube[/ame]

Are these by any chance owners on here? I plan on modeling my end result after a blend of these two, and a bit of Ferrari 308 as well.

I am looking to pick up a used or project Sterling (or varients - don't know the difference well enough yet) on a tight budget in the near future - as such, the tube frame chassis is out of the question.

I can't seem to find anything that directly compares the Sterling, Nova, and Cimbria - what are the main differences between the three? I found the webpage showing the different years and styles of Sterlings, Nova, and Cimbria, but a lot of the images are magazine pulls from which I cant discern strong differences. I'm sure that's an untrained eye issue, but is there anywhere I can find a difference? For the most part, they seem very similar, are there any particular ones you would recommend? Cimbria seems to have the gullwing doors and seems to be rarer - guessing this is would make it more expensive?

I noticed that heater/ac are not really an equipped item in these cars - does this mean that there is no fan function either? Also, I've seen images with the windows down, but none with straps/rollers etc on the doors - do you have to take the windows off to get some air or am I just missing something?

I saw that some have a Subaru conversion kit in progress - what engine is the conversion to? What engines (other than the VW) can fit in these cars? What kind of power can we get out of the VW engine, and what is the highest horsepower number someone has achieved?

I've seen weight estimates from 1900 - 2300 lbs - does that sound accurate? Is that wet weight, and with what engine?

Does anyone know what the drag coefficient would be on these cars?

Typical gas mileage achieved?

I think that's all for now - thanks in advance for any thoughts you may have.
 

letterman7

Honorary Admin
Welcome to the forum! Lots o' questions that we'll try to answer one by one. First, the videos: the top one is a car that was built by a guy named Koon in Germany. Personally, it's a little over the top and Koon is full of himself, but an interesting design intent regardless. He is not on this forum. The second is a fellow named Yaughn who is on this forum. I hadn't realized he has gotten that far on his car - he hasn't posted much lately, probably because he is working on the car!

I can't seem to find anything that directly compares the Sterling, Nova, and Cimbria - what are the main differences between the three? I found the webpage showing the different years and styles of Sterlings, Nova, and Cimbria, but a lot of the images are magazine pulls from which I cant discern strong differences. I'm sure that's an untrained eye issue, but is there anywhere I can find a difference? For the most part, they seem very similar, are there any particular ones you would recommend? Cimbria seems to have the gullwing doors and seems to be rarer - guessing this is would make it more expensive?

Read the history section above and at nationalsterling.org . Most of the lineage of the cars is outlined there. The Cimbria isn't so rare, and "expensive" is a relative term.

I noticed that heater/ac are not really an equipped item in these cars - does this mean that there is no fan function either? Also, I've seen images with the windows down, but none with straps/rollers etc on the doors - do you have to take the windows off to get some air or am I just missing something?

The cars typically are fitted with the donor VW heater system which works fine if kept in shape. The windows do not roll down, they swing out about 3" for ventilation, or they can be removed for sunny day driving. Typically forced air fans are used in both cars, a/c has always been an option for higher powered motors.

I saw that some have a Subaru conversion kit in progress - what engine is the conversion to? What engines (other than the VW) can fit in these cars? What kind of power can we get out of the VW engine, and what is the highest horsepower number someone has achieved?

With any engine conversion you have to keep in mind that if you're going watercooled you have to locate a radiator somewhere. In all models space is at a premium and some creative lateral thinking has to be involved with placement. VW engines are the least expensive (well, time-consuming, anyway) option that is highly recommended for newbies into the kit world or those that don't have a lot of fabrication skills. VW engines can be made to produce over 250hp with forced induction, but that comes with a heavy price as well - they will typically need a rebuild every six months to a year if you have a heavy foot.

I've seen weight estimates from 1900 - 2300 lbs - does that sound accurate? Is that wet weight, and with what engine?

That's about right for a wet weight. From the factory, a car with a stock 1600cc single port engine weighed in at 1700 pounds depending on options.

Does anyone know what the drag coefficient would be on these cars?

Nobody has been able to get the cars into a wind tunnel, so no, there is no data for
233bdf05b52fa6b45b5b9ddd50316ea8.png
.


Typical gas mileage achieved?

Totally engine dependent and how you drive. With my current car before the engine swap, I had a 1500 single port VW. Around town I averaged about 24mpg, on long trips that rose to 32mpg. With my current engine I haven't had enough tuning time to see what it will return, but I'm expecting somewhere around 18-20mpg.

I think that's all for now - thanks in advance for any thoughts you may have.
 

hotrodbones

New member
which Orange County are you from? New York or California? We can always point you in the direction of kits for sale, also check the For Sale section. I found my Cimbria on ebay in a VW search.
 

Flyer615

New member
I'm with Rick (letterman7) on everything he said. I would add, though, that the appeal of these cars is not necessarily the "super car" performance. I've had my car up to about 70 miles per hour. With an eyesight view of about 30-35 inches off the road, it feels like MUCH more. I can do 140 in a Cessna and it feels like sitting still. Sure, you might be able to get Lamborghini performance out of one of these cars if you put Lamborghini money into one of them. The draw (for me, at least) is the attention that they garner. If you want to make a Ferrari owner grumpy, park about 30 feet from him and watch the crowd gathered around his car leave when your canopy starts up. Corvette owners might snub you altogether as you pass and they look down from their lofty perch. *proud*

The thing is, if you're new to the kit world, just get one running, drive it around some, then decide if you even NEED all the other stuff. The nature of a kit car is that it is built by an individual. It will, therefore, reflect the personality of the builder. If you enjoy the creative, hands-on part, the sky is the limit. You are certainly considering one of the most unique kits ever conceived. Good luck and welcome to the forum.
 

chromecarz00

New member
Thanks all for the quick and thorough replies!

Welcome to the forum! Lots o' questions that we'll try to answer one by one. First, the videos: the top one is a car that was built by a guy named Koon in Germany. Personally, it's a little over the top and Koon is full of himself, but an interesting design intent regardless. He is not on this forum. The second is a fellow named Yaughn who is on this forum. I hadn't realized he has gotten that far on his car - he hasn't posted much lately, probably because he is working on the car!

Awesome. Yeah the Koon car is pretty slick, definitely a bit over the top but some good lines there. What car is that based off of?

Read the history section above and at nationalsterling.org . Most of the lineage of the cars is outlined there. The Cimbria isn't so rare, and "expensive" is a relative term.

Will thumb through it soon, thanks!

The cars typically are fitted with the donor VW heater system which works fine if kept in shape. The windows do not roll down, they swing out about 3" for ventilation, or they can be removed for sunny day driving. Typically forced air fans are used in both cars, a/c has always been an option for higher powered motors.
[/COLOR]

Has anyone been successful in creating a droppable window? Or does the shape of the canopy not allow it? If not, has anyone experimented with foldable windows?

[/COLOR][/I]With any engine conversion you have to keep in mind that if you're going watercooled you have to locate a radiator somewhere. In all models space is at a premium and some creative lateral thinking has to be involved with placement. VW engines are the least expensive (well, time-consuming, anyway) option that is highly recommended for newbies into the kit world or those that don't have a lot of fabrication skills. VW engines can be made to produce over 250hp with forced induction, but that comes with a heavy price as well - they will typically need a rebuild every six months to a year if you have a heavy foot.


Yeesh - a 6 month rebuild time is pretty steep. I do have some ideas for radiator placement (or at least different air inlets), but I do think the VW engine would be a good start.


Nobody has been able to get the cars into a wind tunnel, so no, there is no data for
233bdf05b52fa6b45b5b9ddd50316ea8.png
.



Hmmm. Maybe I can get a model into a tunnel program and get an approximate. Or if/when I end up getting one, could just calculate it...

Totally engine dependent and how you drive. With my current car before the engine swap, I had a 1500 single port VW. Around town I averaged about 24mpg, on long trips that rose to 32mpg. With my current engine I haven't had enough tuning time to see what it will return, but I'm expecting somewhere around 18-20mpg.


How much power can you get out of that 1500?

I'm from OC, CA. I just missed a deal on one of the Sterlings ($1500, missed it by a few weeks) but am keeping an eye out. There's one in Santa Monica, I'm waiting for a call back on that one though.

Thanks for those words of advice! I do agree that it's best to start with what a car has and work up. I want to really make this car mine, and while I don't need all the power in the world (at least to begin with), I would like some room to grow into it which it sounds like there is. I love the attention with a touch of anonymity (hence the window questions - a rollable/foldable tinted window that I can keep at half mast on a breezy day sounds perfect).

By the way, what is the suspension on these cars based off of? Of course, I'm sure it's quite adjustable, but what's the ride like as well?
 

chromecarz00

New member
Oh, also I'm frequently down in San Diego as well as in LA so would gladly travel and check the cars out/purchase one to those locations. And finally, registration in (ugh) California. What steps are needed? Does anyone have a link to the requirements for a custom car?

Again, thanks for your help.
 

Flyer615

New member
Oh, also I'm frequently down in San Diego as well as in LA so would gladly travel and check the cars out/purchase one to those locations. And finally, registration in (ugh) California. What steps are needed? Does anyone have a link to the requirements for a custom car?

Again, thanks for your help.

Well, what some of us would consider the "unicorn" of Sterlings is currently (or at least very recently) listed for sale in San Francisco. I realize that's a long way to go, but it is a unicorn, after all. The guy was asking $750 for it. You can click on the link here to see where we were talking about it.

Also, there is a thread here somewhere that someone was discussing the headaches of registering a kit car in California.
 

chromecarz00

New member
Well, what some of us would consider the "unicorn" of Sterlings is currently (or at least very recently) listed for sale in San Francisco. I realize that's a long way to go, but it is a unicorn, after all. The guy was asking $750 for it. You can click on the link here to see where we were talking about it.

Also, there is a thread here somewhere that someone was discussing the headaches of registering a kit car in California.

What is so special about that car? I may be tempted to get up there and do it.
I saw the thread from the SD guy asking about registration, but there wasn't too much information in it and couldn't find the other one...
 

Flyer615

New member
I don't know much about the California registration issue. I live in Tennessee. You can put a motor on just about anything and drive it here. In a few counties it does have to pass emissions, though. :D

As for the Sovran, it is just a terribly rare version of the Sterling. One of the members here had one a few years ago and it ended up going overseas. The wheel openings are different (more squared). The side scoops are different. I'm pretty sure that the hood is different along with the dash. Rick would be the one to tell you what the main differences are. All I know is that there aren't many of them left. In fact, I'm pretty sure there weren't many made in the first place.
 

letterman7

Honorary Admin
Well.. let me throw my $.02 in. For someone just starting out wanting a Sterling and it sounds like you have little or no experience with vintage aircooled VW's, I would suggest to talk to Greg Hampton up in Oregon. He has amassed quite a few cars that he's selling off; I believe all are registered and all run, at least to a point. Greg bought and sold quite a few of those while he was in the San Francisco area so he's well familiar with the processes to get a car registered in CA. Search either the marketplace listing on this site or his username "unofun". He has his number listed.

I'll start at the top: the Koon car is a Nova, the UK version of the Sterling. The Sterling was born from the Nova here in the US, so there's your brief lineage lesson.

Windows: No, you can't drop them into the canopy because of the angle and space. One of our members here is experimenting with a half slider window which should work if he can get the tracking figured out. Another gentleman in Michigan made simple roll-up plastic windows from marine Eisenglass - the thick, clear flexible plastic you see on some boat enclosures. If you're really clever, you might be able to make half windows like the old Lamborghini Countach where just the bottom half drops into the door (in this case, the canopy). Of course, you'll need some engineering behind that to make it work and look good at the same time.

Engine and suspension: all vintage VW. A stock dual port 1500 engine makes about 50hp. Work it a little with different carburetors, distributor and exhaust and you might get it to 70hp. The larger the motor, the more power you can make, but at a price. There's a point where a VW engine "breaks" between reliable streetable power and power - the operative word being reliable. The general consensus with the VW community is a 1914cc engine is the largest you want to build if you're going to drive it everyday. Truthfully, my first car had a 1300cc mill with dual port heads and dual carbs. It was so light it could dust most anything off the line at the expense of a high end speed. But I build my cars to cruise, not to race, so it did just fine for the years I had it.

The Sovran: yes, an exceedingly rare car that needs to be preserved as it came off the line. There were only 6 that we know of. All the body dimensions are different than the standard Sterling; even the side glass is a different size. If you were to purchase that, I would implore a restoration rather than a "re-imagining" to fit your needs. 99% of the Sterling enthusiasts have never seen one in real life. Or... if you purchase it, store it until a fellow enthusiast can purchase it off you to do a proper restoration and put those funds back into your search.
 

ydeardorff

New member

Does anyone know what the drag coefficient would be on these cars?

Nobody has been able to get the cars into a wind tunnel, so no, there is no data for
233bdf05b52fa6b45b5b9ddd50316ea8.png
.



I actually have built a 1/5 scale car for that exact purpose. I built in my 3D art class last semester.
I had placed it on the nose of my sterling only to have my wife bump the balanced canopy onto its rear section. So it needs some rework before it can be taken to the college for a
233bdf05b52fa6b45b5b9ddd50316ea8.png
value. However it will be with all of my body mods applied so it wouldnt be of much value to a stock sterling.
 

chromecarz00

New member
Well.. let me throw my $.02 in. For someone just starting out wanting a Sterling and it sounds like you have little or no experience with vintage aircooled VW's, I would suggest to talk to Greg Hampton up in Oregon. He has amassed quite a few cars that he's selling off; I believe all are registered and all run, at least to a point. Greg bought and sold quite a few of those while he was in the San Francisco area so he's well familiar with the processes to get a car registered in CA. Search either the marketplace listing on this site or his username "unofun". He has his number listed.

I'll give that a shot in the near future, thanks!

Windows: No, you can't drop them into the canopy because of the angle and space. One of our members here is experimenting with a half slider window which should work if he can get the tracking figured out. Another gentleman in Michigan made simple roll-up plastic windows from marine Eisenglass - the thick, clear flexible plastic you see on some boat enclosures. If you're really clever, you might be able to make half windows like the old Lamborghini Countach where just the bottom half drops into the door (in this case, the canopy). Of course, you'll need some engineering behind that to make it work and look good at the same time.

I can imagine some slider-style windows that would work - for me, a car just isn't a car without some windows that can open. Sounds like there is some great potential and work being done in this area, so no concerns.


The Sovran: yes, an exceedingly rare car that needs to be preserved as it came off the line. There were only 6 that we know of. All the body dimensions are different than the standard Sterling; even the side glass is a different size. If you were to purchase that, I would implore a restoration rather than a "re-imagining" to fit your needs. 99% of the Sterling enthusiasts have never seen one in real life. Or... if you purchase it, store it until a fellow enthusiast can purchase it off you to do a proper restoration and put those funds back into your search.

I completely agree - I would hate to be one of those people who has no respect for lineage and rarity of a car. If I were to purchase that, I would do either a restoration or put it in storage to keep it from the crusher. Some expenses recently came up so I'll have to handle those first, but if that car is still around when the time is right, I'll probably pick it up. I'm guessing that parts (not body parts, but restoration parts) are hard to come by for that? Or are most sterlings very similar underneath the skin?

Again, thanks for the continued advice and support. I'm looking forward to some baseline cD measurement!

Has anyone done completed a custom tube chassis for these cars? I saw a thread or two about someone starting, but nothing about anyone finishing one...could be an interesting direction to take it...
 

RangerBEH

Member
The sterling guys in Pittsburg make a very nice looking rolling chassis for a mid-engine setup . If I had 9,000 laying around I'd be all over that. Could turn a sterling into a true super car. I'd love to see a sterling doing 200 plus on a track somewhere.

If your in pa berrian makes a chassis that may work for a sterling I think there another guy in ca that makes a chassis as well. If you wanted to go that route I'd do some homework find out what they can build it for virs what it would cost you.
 

letterman7

Honorary Admin
Well, body parts for the Sovran and GT are non-existent apart from the windshield, hood and the engine hatch. All versions of the Sterling sit on a VW Bug chassis, so "underneath the skin" is sort of a misnomer.
 
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