Lifting struts

[Brett Proctor]

Once again I'm forced to replace the lifting struts for the canopy (manual style)

This is the third set I have had to replace and I'm getting real tired of paying Dave's ridiculous prices($237.50) for something that only lasts a couple of years.
These aren't even getting used that much. 75% of the time they are only used to keep the canopy open.

Well I've searched around and found something that I think will work.

Cost is $30 each.

Once I get them I'll let you know how they work out.

I'm planning to use another system to open and close the canopy but for now I want to use the cheapest way till I get the new system up and running

So for those still using the old reliable manual lifting system once I get the new struts installed I'll let you know how it pans out

 

[Brett Proctor]

Got the new struts in and got them mounted.

These struts are rated at 160lb of force

With this pressure they lift the canopy with no hesitation.

release the latch and they will lift the canopy with no help. One cool thing about them is they have a 2 stage damping. Release the canopy and it goes up fairly fast but at the last few inches of travel it slows down.

I've ordered another set at a lower force(151lb) so I'll see if I like these better. Cost of these is $17 ea

 

[Peter]

Dual damping sounds good, one reason went to actuators, apart from cool factor, was the sudden stop at the end of the up stroke was damaging the roof of the doors. It will be interesting to see how it pans out. don't forget the link.*thumbs up*

 

[ratrog64]

Got the new struts in and got them mounted.

These struts are rated at 160lb of force

With this pressure they lift the canopy with no hesitation.

release the latch and they will lift the canopy with no help. One cool thing about them is they have a 2 stage damping. Release the canopy and it goes up fairly fast but at the last few inches of travel it slows down.

I've ordered another set at a lower force(151lb) so I'll see if I like these better. Cost of these is $17 ea

$17 each? Certainly worth checking out at that price. *thumbs up*

 

[Nic]

Hi Brett, do you have a link?

 

[Brett Proctor]

Hi Brett, do you have a link?

Sorry Nic for keeping you in suspense *laugh* I was waiting for the other set of struts to come in to compare them.

Here's the data for the 160lb lifting force struts

https://www.liftsupportsdepot.com/suspar-c16-00001-gas-charged-lift-support/


Here's the new struts compared to the oem struts



These struts come with a nylon bushing that will need to be drilled out to the appropriate hole diameter(stock size is 5/16 I think it was) or just remove the nylon bushing




Part number on the strut



This company is awesome.

On the first order I thought the strut took the 10mm ball sockets and they emailed me telling me that the struts I ordered had a sleeve end not a ball socket and if I still wanted the struts.
On the second order I ordered two different struts( or I thought they were different)and they said they were the same except that they are made by different companies.

These new struts that I have on order have a lifting force of 150lb

https://www.liftsupportsdepot.com/l...197p150-gas-charged-lift-support-strut61067w/

This set has the ball socket end but it can be removed and replaced with what ever style you want just as long as it has the same threads as the rod on the strut

These new struts should be here on Wednesday. They are very good at getting things shipped out fast.

 

[Brett Proctor]

For those waiting to see how the next set of struts work out I'm not trying to be an ass hole and make you wait.
I've had all three grand kids the last couple of days and at the end of the day I'm done.

I will get you something today on the second set of struts but it wont be till later tonight that I'll have time to post the findings.

 

[Brett Proctor]

As promised here is the results of the 150lb struts.


The 150lb force struts will open the canopy but not by itself.

In the closed position when the latch is released the canopy will lift open about 7" then stop. From there the canopy requires a little help to open.
Once the canopy is in the open position the struts hold it open with no problems

These struts don't have the 2 stage damping that the 160lb struts have.

I may try the other set of 150lb struts that they had just to see if there is a difference(the other struts are rated at 151lb lifting force). For $15 a strut I think I can afford to try the other set to see if there is any thing to gain

https://www.liftsupportsdepot.com/l...197p150-gas-charged-lift-support-strut61067w/





There are a few differences I found out between the struts that I'll post at a later time but for now the main thing is to let you know how much force is required to lift the canopy.

Anything more than 160lb of force I think would be to much and less than 150lb I think the canopy might struggle some to open

 

[Brett Proctor]

Just a quick update

These struts do have the two stage damping.

As I work them more to beak them in I discovered this.

I have one more style to check out but I need to order them first. That may happen this weekend

Shaft diameter and thread size appear to be different from the first set of struts.

I'll get this info later when I have time

 

[RangerBEH]

How are you holding the front of the canopy down. Part of the reason I bought my sterling is it was manual but it had weird latches that held the canopy in place and they brook the side plastic cover. So I'll probably switch it to electric actuators just for easy or install and not having the risk of hydrolic leak. Still trying to figure out if I'm going to keep the rear latch or not I kind of like the look except for it being a water collector

 

[islandman]

How are you holding the front of the canopy down. Part of the reason I bought my sterling is it was manual but it had weird latches that held the canopy in place and they brook the side plastic cover. So I'll probably switch it to electric actuators just for easy or install and not having the risk of hydrolic leak. Still trying to figure out if I'm going to keep the rear latch or not I kind of like the look except for it being a water collector

I always find it strange the various biases on these cars canopy opening methods based on continents. The aussies seem to be firmly in the linear actuator camp, as do the americans (I think). However its rare to find a british Nova that doesn't have hydraulics. I've only ever had hydraulics and other than the odd fuse blowing haven't had issues with it. Good holding pressure to clamp the canopies down and no need for latches of any sort

 

[ratrog64]

I always find it strange the various biases on these cars canopy opening methods based on continents. The aussies seem to be firmly in the linear actuator camp, as do the americans (I think). However its rare to find a british Nova that doesn't have hydraulics. I've only ever had hydraulics and other than the odd fuse blowing haven't had issues with it. Good holding pressure to clamp the canopies down and no need for latches of any sort

I have hydraulics on both the #310 & #114 car. I have 2 sets of Actuators I have purchased in the last year. 310 will be changed over to actuators and new 068 car will get actuators as well. I am anxious to see the differences in the two methods.

 

[Brett Proctor]

How are you holding the front of the canopy down. Part of the reason I bought my sterling is it was manual but it had weird latches that held the canopy in place and they brook the side plastic cover. So I'll probably switch it to electric actuators just for easy or install and not having the risk of hydrolic leak. Still trying to figure out if I'm going to keep the rear latch or not I kind of like the look except for it being a water collector

I got something in the works for latching down the canopy but for now I'm playing with the lifting force of the struts to get those right.

There has been a lot of talk of how much force it takes to lift the canopy but to my knowledge nobody has really experimented with the struts to find out for sure how much force it really takes or offer a replacement to the oem struts.

One thing to be aware of is the shaft and thread size is different on the two struts. The 160psi strut has the same threads as the oem strut but the 150psi strut has a smaller shaft and threads so an adapter will have to be made(or bought) to put the oem strut ends on the 150psi struts. That or come up with a way for the ball ends to work on the lifting arms.

So for $20 ea. vs $240 now you have a cheaper way to go now.

Third set of struts turned out to be a bust. They were suppose to have a couple more psi for lifting but when installed they did worst than the 150psi struts.


When I get the setup that I'm working on more developed I'll post more, but for now this is all you get

When you live in a place where the temperatures exceed 100 degrees you can't afford being trapped in your car for any length of time if something fails, and I have no sun roof to crawl out of. Yes I guess I could get out through the window opening if I had too but I don't care to test that option. I think I can come up with something a little better.

 

[Peter]

I found the force for lifting my doors by using bathroom scales and a length of 2x2. place the 2x2 (after weighing it of course) between the part being lifted at the lifting point (in the canopy scenario across between the hinge arms) and the scales on the floor, divide by 2 and Bob's your uncle.

My doors were 50Lbs so 75Lb force or about 100Nm did the job.

As far as powered roofs, whether hydraulic,actuator or gas struts, I still maintain that the roof should just lift on it's own, an stay there without the hydraulic struts or actuators fitted, the hydraulics or electrics should just 'move' the roof, not "lift" it.. Simple manual lift is another matter and needs finer tuning of course.

Before I went dual 150Nm struts for my hood I had a Honda tailgate strut in the centre but with a tire valve set in the base so I could alter the pressure. I know it's not nitrogen and only air but as it's not continually compressing, hence the need for gas, the heat build up is not an issue.

As far as safety pins go I would look at welding a boss to the arm and fitting the top of the actuator/strut with a clutch pin rather than a stud and nut. A quick pull on the ring and the top is disconnected.

 

[Brett Proctor]

I found the force for lifting my doors by using bathroom scales and a length of 2x2. place the 2x2 (after weighing it of course) between the part being lifted at the lifting point (in the canopy scenario across between the hinge arms) and the scales on the floor, divide by 2 and Bob's your uncle.

My doors were 50Lbs so 75Lb force or about 100Nm did the job.

As far as powered roofs, whether hydraulic,actuator or gas struts, I still maintain that the roof should just lift on it's own, an stay there without the hydraulic struts or actuators fitted, the hydraulics or electrics should just 'move' the roof, not "lift" it.. Simple manual lift is another matter and needs finer tuning of course.

Before I went dual 150Nm struts for my hood I had a Honda tailgate strut in the centre but with a tire valve set in the base so I could alter the pressure. I know it's not nitrogen and only air but as it's not continually compressing, hence the need for gas, the heat build up is not an issue.

As far as safety pins go I would look at welding a boss to the arm and fitting the top of the actuator/strut with a clutch pin rather than a stud and nut. A quick pull on the ring and the top is disconnected.

I used a scale also to find the lifting force of the stock struts and that gave me a starting point.

"As far as powered roofs, whether hydraulic,actuator or gas struts, I still maintain that the roof should just lift on it's own, an stay there without the hydraulic struts or actuators fitted, the hydraulics or electrics should just 'move' the roof, not "lift" it.. Simple manual lift is another matter and needs finer tuning of course."

That is my thinking also.
So if the main system fails I'll always be able to open the canopy with out any outside help.




"As far as safety pins go I would look at welding a boss to the arm and fitting the top of the actuator/strut with a clutch pin rather than a stud and nut. A quick pull on the ring and the top is disconnected"

I think it was Nic who commented that trying to pull a pin out with a load applied to it was no easy task. So I have ruled that out as an option, and even if you were able to pull the pin out, trying to lift the canopy open with no help from a gas strut is not an easy thing to do.

In the system I'm designing I hope to address these issues

 

[ratrog64]

I'm not sure about the size and physical condition of the rest of you. But I climbed in and out of the side window of my 068 car this past weekend at least a half a dozen times. Plenty of room and not the most awkward looking feat. *hee-hee-hee*

I think if at least the side window is removable, there is always an escape route in the case of an emergency. For me, the removable side window is paramount and that's just because I always have my windows down when driving.

I really like the gas strut idea and may consider it along with the electric actuator. Thinking it may improve speed a little by removing some of the load. I know the speed is rated by the motor, but I would think the greater load might slow it down some. The gas strut may also give longer life to the electric actuator. You have found some very reasonably priced units. Thanks

 

[Peter]

I'm not sure about the size and physical condition of the rest of you. But I climbed in and out of the side window of my 068 car this past weekend at least a half a dozen times. Plenty of room and not the most awkward looking feat. *hee-hee-hee*

I think if at least the side window is removable, there is always an escape route in the case of an emergency. For me, the removable side window is paramount and that's just because I always have my windows down when driving.

I really like the gas strut idea and may consider it along with the electric actuator. Thinking it may improve speed a little by removing some of the load. I know the speed is rated by the motor, but I would think the greater load might slow it down some. The gas strut may also give longer life to the electric actuator. You have found some very reasonably priced units. Thanks

As the actuators are calibrated in a compromise of speed versus power if you remove the need to lift a heavy load by using a gas strut in parallel you can up the speed considerably. hydraulic struts are a totally different matter and their speed is controlled by the pump and port/pipe size which can only be overcome by an accumulator.
*thumbs up*

 

[Brett Proctor]

As far as safety pins go I would look at welding a boss to the arm and fitting the top of the actuator/strut with a clutch pin rather than a stud and nut. A quick pull on the ring and the top is disconnected.

Something to think about. If you did have removable pins a few things could happen if you removed them and there is a force being exerted on them.

Taking away the force holding the strut in its compressed position could result in the lifting strut rod to go through the windshield. Of course this would happen only if the removable pin is located in the top mount so it would be wise to locate it in the bottom mount but if your going this route then if you have a hydraulic or linear struts the wires or hydraulic lines would limit how high you could lift the canopy without having to disconnect them


If you manage to remove the pin you still have to lift the canopy and if you have the removable pin in the top mount(if the strut stays in its current position) the weight of the canopy would rest on it(depends on where in the stroke of the strut stopped) again maybe causing damage to the glass.

I climbed in and out of the side window of my 068 car this past weekend at least a half a dozen times.

Got to ask why??
I can see 1 time or maybe 2 times to get the canopy to open and then install a rod to hold the canopy open.

 

[ratrog64]

Got to ask why??
I can see 1 time or maybe 2 times to get the canopy to open and then install a rod to hold the canopy open.

On the 068 car the lifting arms are not installed on the canopy. The windshield is still installed on the canopy so its too awkward to remove when I'm working by myself.