Different idea for A/C and heat, thermoelectric.
- Thread starter Hogwit
- Start date
letterman7
Honorary Admin
Yes, that's what I meant as well. The issue with the standard A/C compressor on a VW motor is there isn't much room to put them, and they'll place a load burden on a stock motor. I've noticed that load on my car, equipped with a standard Sanden style compressor. It's not too bad at cruising speed, but gets noticeable off the line at traffic lights.
Brett Proctor
Well-known member
Maybe if you guys get a big enough order together from this place that Yaughn found Universal Air Conditioning Unit - AIRCON2
You might get a break in the price and that would offset the shipping cost to make it worth while to order or Dave might be able to get them at a decent price.
It measures 14" X 11.5" X 6" Your not going to find anything much smaller to fit under the dash of a sterling and it has the option of a different face panel so you can plug in your own vent system.
The blower CFM is decent and the BTU isn't that bad either and its just AC for you VW guys that don't need a heater
Brett
You might get a break in the price and that would offset the shipping cost to make it worth while to order or Dave might be able to get them at a decent price.
It measures 14" X 11.5" X 6" Your not going to find anything much smaller to fit under the dash of a sterling and it has the option of a different face panel so you can plug in your own vent system.
The blower CFM is decent and the BTU isn't that bad either and its just AC for you VW guys that don't need a heater
Brett
delbertinie
Member
I have a rather odd but practical way to cool my cimbria.
I have a one ton ford cargo van that is my pull vehicle and converted rv.
In it I added a deep cell battery and a 3000 watt inverter. I have a 250 watt ac house air conditioner and a 115 watt ac ceramic heater. as a side note i have a dorm fridge and microwave and tv in the van as well.
I can run everything for almost 8 hours without a recharge.
I am going to cut a square hole in the firewall behind the seat and put ac unit there and get another ceramic heater as well. if you build a sheet metal box for the heater and use a 12 volt blower you will get great heat just plumb it to your ducts.
the electric car guys use the ceramic heaters in place of a heater core thats where i got the idea with the altenator charging the battery it should never be an issue.
yes the ac my look comical but it will work and i will find a way camoflauge it.
thanks dale
letterman7
Honorary Admin
Re-read post #20 concerning converted home units. For heat, if you can get the ceramic heater to work efficiently and warm the cabin for you, more power to you. That's one of the least efficient heating mechanisms out there...
delbertinie
Member
here is my take on that the ac unit hanging in the back window of my one ton van cost $100.oo new
I bought mine at the thrift shop for $25.oo. Its been there and worked for five seasons with no problem.
I restore cars for a living and travel across the country searching for the next project or delivering the finished project. Never had an issue besides I could replace that unit every year and not kill my budget.
thanks dale
delbertinie
Member
I'm all ears so what is the most efficient way to heat these tiny cabins?-confused*
All I know is the ceramic unit that is in the van works well. I admit it could heat it up faster I am more than willing to find a better alternative.
thanks Dale
p.s. One of the advantages of running a 110ac system is that i can switch from the inverter to house power and run the heater all night long and have a nice toasty defrosted cabin when i get leave for the morning. I can also leave the air conditioning running when I'm in the store.*rock on*
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letterman7
Honorary Admin
You could be one of the few that the a/c in the window version works for, Dale. I'm glad it does; that tells me that the units are a little more robust than most people believe. But I'm still not sure it's 'good' for the compressor. You must have found some smooth roads somewhere...
As for heat.. if you feel ceramic is the way to go, then by all means. Most of us use the heater boxes off the engine... kept in good condition with some proper insulated ducting, you'll have heat in under a minute.
As for heat.. if you feel ceramic is the way to go, then by all means. Most of us use the heater boxes off the engine... kept in good condition with some proper insulated ducting, you'll have heat in under a minute.
delbertinie
Member
This is my first vw and I have heard many story about lack of heat. If they work good I'm all for stock.
I would appreciate any advice to help.
I am not and do not want to known as a know it all.
I would add a standard type of air conditioning but I think it would rob horses.
Also there is that problem of fabricating a compressor bracket. I have not found an aftermarket one yet. I am also puzzled about where a stable place to add one on a air cooled engine would be .
If that problem was conquered, I would find a small car or truck and remove all the ac from. Then cut the appropriate holes in the fire wall install everything. Run longer ac lines and charge it. Yes I'm over simplifying it, but that is easy way to trace your assembly problems.
thanks Dale
oh buy the way off topic talked to previous owner today. He said he bought body from amore ltd in 1976
Wouldn't that make my cimbria one of the earlier ones?
letterman7
Honorary Admin
No problem Dale. Even us 'old school' owners are still learning stuff every day. With some of the new technologies, undoubtedly there will be a/c alternatives and more reliable heat in small packages. As for the heat source... yes, stock VW is still one of the best despite rumors to the contrary. Install new heater boxes and seals, and shlep some insulated ductwork into the car, and you'll be cooking toes in no time.
A/C is, of course, a different story. I'm sure you've read through most of the posts concerning adding a system and have seen the complete systems offered by companies such as ICE and Gilmore Enterprises. Both have stand-offs for the compressor, and there are several other companies that offer custom compressor stands that eliminate the fuel pump. But yes, they definitely do rob some horsepower. I've noticed it from a standing start though cruising speed isn't too bad at all. I'll be re-vamping my system over the winter to be hopefully far more efficient... keep your eyes on upcoming posts!
A/C is, of course, a different story. I'm sure you've read through most of the posts concerning adding a system and have seen the complete systems offered by companies such as ICE and Gilmore Enterprises. Both have stand-offs for the compressor, and there are several other companies that offer custom compressor stands that eliminate the fuel pump. But yes, they definitely do rob some horsepower. I've noticed it from a standing start though cruising speed isn't too bad at all. I'll be re-vamping my system over the winter to be hopefully far more efficient... keep your eyes on upcoming posts!
time907356
Member
How about this idea for HVAC? The cost is low ($600), and you get AC plus heat! Since it's ducted, I was thinking of stripping the exterior, putting it under the hood, using an inverter, and re-mounting the digital controls in the dash. 2500BTU should be enough for the cabin, but what about pulling .5KW through the alternator/generator??
Climate Right 2.500 BTU Mini Portable Air Conditioner | Wayfair
Climate Right 2.500 BTU Mini Portable Air Conditioner | Wayfair
letterman7
Honorary Admin
And where would you put it? Judging by the size of the box, it's got to be at least 32" square, if not larger. Even if it were stripped down, the component size alone would be an issue. Even though I'm sure everyone has seen photos of the redneck van with a window aircon unit stuffed in the back window (sorry, Dale!), here are the issues at hand with doing something like this:
1) You need an inverter that will handle the power demands. The total power is rated for the Kw per day on that unit; I'd imagine that the inverter would pull more juice than the unit itself just to run it. As long as you're at highway speeds it probably wouldn't be an issue with an 80 or 100A alternator.
2) Stationary home units aren't meant to move and be jostled. Especially the compressor. One good pothole and the copper fittings would likely crack. I know Dale (delbertine) says he has an a/c unit in his van, but I'm still dubious.
3) Total output: I read somewhere that the average automotive aircon unit puts out something like 8-10K BTU's to cope with the greenhouse effects on the automobile. Your home/garage/doghouse has more insulation than the average car and won't take quite as much effort to cool. Would 2500BTU work? Maybe, but are you willing to take the chance with "regular" automotive systems costing not much more?
1) You need an inverter that will handle the power demands. The total power is rated for the Kw per day on that unit; I'd imagine that the inverter would pull more juice than the unit itself just to run it. As long as you're at highway speeds it probably wouldn't be an issue with an 80 or 100A alternator.
2) Stationary home units aren't meant to move and be jostled. Especially the compressor. One good pothole and the copper fittings would likely crack. I know Dale (delbertine) says he has an a/c unit in his van, but I'm still dubious.
3) Total output: I read somewhere that the average automotive aircon unit puts out something like 8-10K BTU's to cope with the greenhouse effects on the automobile. Your home/garage/doghouse has more insulation than the average car and won't take quite as much effort to cool. Would 2500BTU work? Maybe, but are you willing to take the chance with "regular" automotive systems costing not much more?
letterman7
Honorary Admin
Yeah, any generic kit can be made to work. It's a matter of airflow over the condenser. I think, depending on the evaporator that you choose, the BTU rating is anywhere between 4500 and 7000. There are a myriad of kits out there. Yes, it's a drain on the engine, but so is too much power to an inverter.
time907356
Member
The spec's on the doghouse unit are 18"x14"x14", so smaller than it looks in the pic's. Under the hood was what I was thinking. The all-electric proposition was the benefit here. Rather than mounting the compressor ($$ and hp), this seems more flexible. Maybe mounting it on rubber shock mounts would help with the pot holes. I'm not too familiar with inverter losses, so you might be right. We've just used them to run TV's in the past. Ideally, the motor could be swapped for a DC unit, like in the boat systems (below), only for a lot less coin!
products - Dometic
products - Dometic
letterman7
Honorary Admin
Hmmm.. yeah, photos are deceiving! That must be one small doghouse! Anyway, the boat systems use a Danfoss DB compressor to power those systems. I have one here in my shop that I've been experimenting with. It will work if you don't mind waiting an hour for it to cool anything. All I can say is do your research. I've been researching alternatives for years and dollar for dollar, a standard belt-driven compressor is still the best bet. Read on some of the EV forums what guys are doing there - most are using belt driven automotive compressors because there just isn't an efficient, inexpensive compressor that's suited to automotive use yet. There are electric compressors out there - I had bookmarked a site (that I can't find now) a year or so ago that had large-ish 12v compressors meant for doing just what you're talking about. The compressor alone was $1500 - and it's performance rating was still below a $299 belt drive.
Brett Proctor
Well-known member
It might be a typo but the add says 2.5 BTU not 2500 BTU. They just stuck a couple of 0's after the 2.5 to make it look like 2500
Brett
Brett
time907356
Member
I may just try one for $600 to 'play with'. Lord knows, I'm not going to make any money on this project! There are also the added losses in trying to duct the air into the cabin, rather than have the evaporator itself in the cabin. It could still be stripped apart to fix that problem though, if it has standard recharge ports and is not sealed.
I agree that belt driving is more efficient. Since the motor is the power source, it makes sense that drawing energy from as close to the source as you can would be the most efficient transmission. A belt is only one step away. An electric unit has the wiring and inverter losses to contend with. And ultimately, it still draws its power from the motor. However, it could be a lot lighter on the wallet.
I agree that belt driving is more efficient. Since the motor is the power source, it makes sense that drawing energy from as close to the source as you can would be the most efficient transmission. A belt is only one step away. An electric unit has the wiring and inverter losses to contend with. And ultimately, it still draws its power from the motor. However, it could be a lot lighter on the wallet.