Canopy lifting idea

[Brett Proctor]

This has probably been discussed before and its kind of like the idea that Peter has.

Don't have the cad program or skills to draw this up, but in my mind I know how it will work*yipes*

The stock struts would be retained in the stock location and this electric motor (used for a mitsubishi Eclipse convertible top lifting motor) would be also used.
If the electric motor fails you can still lift the canopy open using the stock struts.
In all the applications I've seen(hydraulic or electric)if the system fails your on your own to try and get the top up and thats no easy task

In this system a release latch would be used to disengage the electric motor from the lifting mechanism and the driver will be able to lift the top manually with no problem(assuming the struts are in good shape)

Edit:

forgot to post picture

 

[Peter]

How would you translate the rotary gear action to linear?

BMW use a similar motor under the parcel shelf of the older soft tops and they drop down to disengage allowing manual operation. Made a few bucks re-fitting them too

 

[Brett Proctor]

How would you translate the rotary gear action to linear?

Got that all figured out.

I'm going to hold off on details till I get one of these motors and see what its capable of and the amp draw it has.

I'm going to try and get the rear section to the car made this weekend so it will be about a week before I can get to the yards and look for these motors.

 

[Brett Proctor]

During my visit to the yard the other day I did a quick search for these motors

Every single car that has them in it had them already removed.

Which makes me wonder if these motors are not reliable and being replaced because the original motors failed in the car or if they are popular and being used for other things.

 

[Peter]

I know they don't grow on trees but are there any older BMW rag tops there, if so there have a couple under the parcel shelf that drop down.

 

[Brett Proctor]

Went to the pick a part today and found a Eclipse Convertible with the motors still in it. Problem is I didn't bring enough money to get them*nothing to see*

But I did get measurements

Overall length is 6 3/4"(171.5mm)

Width is 2 3/8"(60.325mm)

The motor rides on this gear to raise and lower the top


I was thinking if the gear was welded or brackets made to the lifting arm with the help of the stock struts, raising and lowering the top would be no problem for the motors


Also found these limit switches from a Saab

 

[Nic]

I like the idea! Those motors are going to need a monstrous amount of torque to lift the top though. Unless your're going to use them in conjunction with something else.

 

[Brett Proctor]

I like the idea! Those motors are going to need a monstrous amount of torque to lift the top though. Unless your're going to use them in conjunction with something else.

From the previous post

I was thinking if the gear was welded or brackets made to the lifting arm with the help of the stock struts, raising and lowering the top would be no problem for the motors

I should have checked the gear ratio of the gear box but didn't think of it at the time.
If I get a hold of one I'll do some tests on it to see how much force it produces.

 

[Peter]

Could work BUT the hole in the centre of the gear would need to be concentric and on the pivot bolt of the arm.

 

[Peter]

I like the idea! Those motors are going to need a monstrous amount of torque to lift the top though. Unless your're going to use them in conjunction with something else.

I agree, if countered by gas struts that would take the weight, the motor would 'just' need to move the canopy rather than actually lift it.

 

[Brett Proctor]

Could work BUT the hole in the centre of the gear would need to be concentric and on the pivot bolt of the arm.
View attachment 7509

I concur
But that wont be a problem. Already have that figured out

An issue I do see is, the motors I found didn't lock in the lower or upper position so they may not provide any tension while in the closed position to keep the canopy closed. Once the power to the motors is turned off, any tension on the motors will cause them to back off till a neutral position is found.(if that makes any sense)
So some other means of locking the canopy may have to be used.

I'll know more once I get one of these motors.

The good part is you wont be trapped inside if the motors malfunction because the stock struts will be used so you will still be able to open and close the canopy manually with no issues.

 

[Peter]

Maybe not, do your windows drop? In fact it's impossible to lower them and it's much the same principal.

 

[Flyer615]

Maybe not, do your windows drop? In fact it's impossible to lower them and it's much the same principal.

I tend to agree with this, but you could certainly make a bracket that pivots the motor away from the gear in the event of an emergency, or power outage. In fact, I'm thinking that, based on where these motors would be mounted, you could make a pin that pulls from inside the car to allow the gear on the motor to disengage from the rack (ring) gear (just swing the motor and gear down a half inch). You're not gonna pull it unless there is a failure that was pretty big. You could get out of the car, then get back in and pull the top down in order to drive home. Once the electrical issue was resolved, you could reach through the side pocket to hold the motor back up to re-engage the pin -- in my humble opinion.

 

[Brett Proctor]

Maybe not, do your windows drop? In fact it's impossible to lower them and it's much the same principal.

-confused*

Your going to have to draw me a picture ,I have no idea what your talking about

 

[ratrog64]

If your windows pop out you always have a way out. Maybe not the best way out but certainly an option. If the motors free spin when not energized, you will be able to push the top open anyway.

 

[Brett Proctor]

If your windows pop out you always have a way out. Maybe not the best way out but certainly an option. If the motors free spin when not energized, you will be able to push the top open anyway.

So if it "free spins" thats a good thing then?.

Given thats what happens I was thinking electric bear claw latches to hold the canopy down would be the way to go. Like what is used in trunks(boots)

They do have an over ride feature encase the battery goes dead

 

[ratrog64]

Yes a good thing in some ways but not another. A latch to hold the top down will still be needed. Your idea of the bear claw latch would certainly work.

I guess that's why the hydraulic rams and electric actuators are the most common used. But I give you props for trying to discover an alternative.

 

[Brett Proctor]

I guess that's why the hydraulic rams and electric actuators are the most common used. But I give you props for trying to discover an alternative.

But if either one of those systems fail your you could be trapped and it has happened to members here.
In this town you don't want to be trapped in your car in the middle of summer. People have died

The wife has made it clear that she wants to drive this car so I'm just trying to make it as simple and easy and safe as possible

 

[islandman]

But if either one of those systems fail your you could be trapped and it has happened to members here.

My hydraulics failed at least 3 times before I redid the wiring and changed the pump (each time I was inside the car). Luckily I had an opening (and removable) glass sunroof panel that allowed me to simply stand up on the seat and pull myself out of the car. Not necessarily graceful, and somewhat embarrassing with a crowd present but a lot easier than exiting a side window and a simple failsafe too.

 

[Peter]

I tend to agree with this, but you could certainly make a bracket that pivots the motor away from the gear in the event of an emergency, or power outage. In fact, I'm thinking that, based on where these motors would be mounted, you could make a pin that pulls from inside the car to allow the gear on the motor to disengage from the rack (ring) gear (just swing the motor and gear down a half inch). You're not gonna pull it unless there is a failure that was pretty big. You could get out of the car, then get back in and pull the top down in order to drive home. Once the electrical issue was resolved, you could reach through the side pocket to hold the motor back up to re-engage the pin -- in my humble opinion.

That's how the Mercedes cabriolet has them under the rear parcel shelf, they drop and allowing manual raising the roof.