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Canopy hydraulic system

RangerBEH

RangerBEH

Member
Does anyone have a parts list for the hydraulic system? I've seen a few posts about a certain motor or strut but not a complete list. I'm guessing for some of you it's common sense but unfortunately I'm not that lucky. I get the concept of the system but I haven't worked with hydraulics before, I'd love to buy Dave's kit but for $1400 I can't swing it. My issue is I don't really know what I need so pricing it out at the moment is difficult.

Also for your cars do your systems have an up and down lock? Or do most just run the pump till it's in position and let go? Do most use the key switch, a wireless remote or both? Also I've seen a lot of people remove the latch on the canopy is there a way to lock that open so it can be left on the car. I'd rather not have to lean over the canopy while turning the key on the side of the car to get the top open. But it would be nice to still have a working latch for highway etc. I'm guessing having is would reduce canopy movement and help maintain the seal and reduce noise. Is that correct?

I'm still going to be busy with my chassis and suspension for a while but the next step will be temporally mounting the body for bodywork and test fitting components like the hydraulics so I'm not messing up a perfectly good paint job later.

I apologies for all the questions I'm on the road flying so I spend time ordering parts and trying to problem solve in advance. Tomorrow I get home and plan to dive back into the chassis welding. it's nice to be seeing progress finally.
 
RangerBEH

RangerBEH

Member
Also what's the difference between these two systems? I realize components are hidden in the one but it still appears simpler.

Islandman does nice work!
 

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RangerBEH

RangerBEH

Member
And Dave's awesome blue car. I'm guessing the part hanging off the pump are the "up/down locks" right?

Also does it depend on the pump if it's mounted horizontally or veridically.
 

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letterman7

letterman7

Honorary Admin
The only reason I retained by canopy twist lock is it helps locate and secure the rear of the canopy. Not that the hydraulics won't hold it closed on it's own, but it does help the seal at the back a little bit. As for the components... read through other threads here. Dave does have the one-way valves (lock valves) occasionally. I have to look at mine and see if there are any part numbers. Really, unless you're parked on an uphill incline, there's no reason to need them. Once the canopy slightly over-centers it'll stay open on it's own.

Pumps: the pumps are typically any convertible top pump. Those can be had on fleabay for less than Dave charges. Look for the ones that have the integrated release valve, usually found on the import cars. Tech tip: tilt/trim motors from Mercruiser were what Mike McBride sold as part of his package back in the 90's. The have built in locking valves and are typically much faster than a convertible top pump. Those pumps can also be found on evilbay. Buy a new or refurbed unit.. don't trust one that's used. Trade off: pump assembly itself is larger than a convertible top pump. My first car I put it behind the drivers seat... mostly because I was too lazy to drill new holes for the ram lines!

Rams: look in other threads for the model number of the rams that I'm running. They're pneumatic rams and will work fine if used with non-corrosive fluid (like jack oil).
 
RangerBEH

RangerBEH

Member
Thanks rick, that gives me a place to start looking. Can the components be purchased at lowes or are the lines and connections special order stuff? Also for pump placement should they be horizontal? Or is every manufacture different.

When wiring are there generally only three wires off the motor (up, down, ground)? Also would the wiring diagram attached be good to use?

Does anyone have one for the hydraulics?
 

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M

mud4fun

New member
Napa carries the hose and fittings. Air brake hose and it can be bought by the roll. I think I used 40 ft for the red car. Just make sue you get the fittings with the inserts that keep the hose from collapsing and a few extra Ferrell's to repair leaks.
 
letterman7

letterman7

Honorary Admin
I bought my lines through Flowtran, now a part of A.S.A.P. Hydraulics. All the lines are "plumbing" fittings - sleeves and ferrule setups and available almost anywhere. Pumps can only be mounted according to where the fill is. Most are horizontal (at least the new convertible pumps). My first car had a Caddy pump in it vertically mounted behind the cockpit. Mercruiser pumps only go one way as the fluid reservoir is at the bottom.

Wiring and plumbing.. very simple. Diagram shows an optional dump valve if one isn't on the pump itself:

Sterling pump wiring.jpg
 
RangerBEH

RangerBEH

Member
Thanks rick that is exactly what I was looking for!

Do you use the bradded line or rubber? Also what diameter 3/8?
 
letterman7

letterman7

Honorary Admin
Lines to the pump and cylinder are rated nylon from the hydraulic shop. I think they are 1/4", but might be a smidgen smaller. Everything uses compression fittings. Don't use rubber line as it might deteriorate with the hydraulic fluid.
 
nbb350

nbb350

Active member
keep in mind that if you run your cylinders in parallel like shown in Rick's diagram, you will run the risk of "twisting" your canopy if one of the cylinders runs slower than the other (for whatever reason...corrosion, blockage, resistance). if you run them in series, they will only operate as fast as the slowest cylinder - and in unison.
 
letterman7

letterman7

Honorary Admin
*oh my* Jeezus... you guys know how to complicate a system. Flow control valves - simple twist style plunger valves on each inlet (bottom) hose to the rams. If one is moving faster than the other, simply close that valve a little bit until it evens up: Parker Hydraulic Flow Control Valve F1220S | eBay

Had 'em on the first car with zero issues. Don't have any on the current car and.. zero issues. It's ok to think about possible issues, but if there is a cylinder going bad, you'll know it far in advance of cracking the windshield.
 
V

vpogv

Active member
Even though these have been answers I personally grabbed my lines from Parker Store locally - just simply 1/4" nylon tubing but I had piece of mind it was ok with hydraulics. I got my fittings from Lowe's as they are simple brass fittings.
 
J

Johan

New member
Hi Guys,

Our big question is after seeing the new mercury pump. What is the actual specifications for the hydraulic powerpack to lift the roof of approximately 50kg in around 6 seconds?

flowfitonline also have a few possibilities that could do the trick. There is a few pumps but how do we know this is the pump for the job!

Please help and give us some guidelines here!!
 
letterman7

letterman7

Honorary Admin
That's the thing Johan - I don't think there are any specs for the pumps we use here. The only spec I can find on my most recent pump for my other car is this:

OILDYNE POWER TRIM PUMP - 5A-1 90-12934--2 1097
SSpecifications Valve Pressure Specifications Valve Pressure
Up Circuit
2200-2600 psi
(15173-17932 kPa)


Down Circuit
400-600 P.S.l.
(2759-4138 kPa)

I was looking for a flow rate but found nothing. Small diameter cylinders will help with speed, but only to a point. You'll want something with a high rate of flow.
 
Peter

Peter

Active member
Straight pipe from pump outlet into a can, run for exactly 5 seconds, measure contents of can and x by 12, (60 seconds), that's your maximum flow rate OFF LOAD.
 
J

Johan

New member
Thanks Peter it would tell us what is the flow rate but ok we could work something out with the diameter of the cylinders and the height/length of the cylinder. To get the volume of the cylinder is fine but then with the flow rate and a approximate opening time of 6 seconds then we could get to an answer. The operating time of 6 seconds will not influence the pumps working cycle. Pump will not get hot in that opening time.

With this we could get to a specification of some sort.

Volume of cylinder is 2r x pi x h. = 2 x 12.5 x 3.14 x 200 =15707.96327 cubic mm

If I am not wrong this means that the pump have to pump 15707 cubic mm fluid within 6min 360 seconds then the pump needs to deliver 43.6332313 cub mm per second deliver.

How do you calculate the pressure required to lift a roof of approximately 50kilogram.

Ok guy's I have tied myself in a knot help is needed.

The specifications of the pump is fine but it is interesting that the down pressure is higher than the up.

HELP!
 
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