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Bad master??????

delbertinie

delbertinie

Member
At this point its staying stock put new hoses, new wheel cylinders and a new master on the car.
Also new shoes.
1st issue first of all low pressure.
Bench bled it 1st, installed bled a four. Had no leaks.
The rear has decent pressure but the front has virtually none.
Also very little pedal goes almost to the floor regardless how much I bleed it.

The other thing I thought was odd the rear drums had bigger cylinders than the front.
I always thought it was supposed to be the other way around.

Any ways I went for one hair raising ride good thing I'm bald*insane*

Any ideas I thought it was the master went and got another repeated process same result.

HELP*very frustrated*

OH by the way put a third brake light under the engine hatch lights up the rear glasses great.
 

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letterman7

letterman7

Honorary Admin
That seems to be a common theme with new masters. The repops - not the German masters - seem to have the most issues with not being able to be bled out all the way. Assuming that you aren't getting air out of the lines and that all the connections are tight (I had one line in the front that just would not bleed out - no apparent air, just a slew of tiny bubbles - and traced it to the caliper connection. No matter how tight I cranked it, it still leaked just a little, sucking in air. Wound up wrapping that one in plumbers tape - problem solved.) have you adjusted the shoes all the way out? The buggy guys will swap the rear cylinders for the fronts, adjusting their bias to the back wheels, but for our cars the regular layout is fine. Larger cylinders mean lower overall pressure, hence the back wheels will lock up after the fronts.

Try adjusting the front shoes all the way out till they stop the wheels from spinning, then a click or two back until the brakes just drag. Then check your pedal play.

I had one master that just wouldn't work and returned it for another. Then another. Then I had enough and bought a German master and a set of front disc conversions and never looked back!
 
delbertinie

delbertinie

Member
letterman7 said:
That seems to be a common theme with new masters. The repops - not the German masters - seem to have the most issues with not being able to be bled out all the way. Assuming that you aren't getting air out of the lines and that all the connections are tight (I had one line in the front that just would not bleed out - no apparent air, just a slew of tiny bubbles - and traced it to the caliper connection. No matter how tight I cranked it, it still leaked just a little, sucking in air. Wound up wrapping that one in plumbers tape - problem solved.) have you adjusted the shoes all the way out? The buggy guys will swap the rear cylinders for the fronts, adjusting their bias to the back wheels, but for our cars the regular layout is fine. Larger cylinders mean lower overall pressure, hence the back wheels will lock up after the fronts.

Try adjusting the front shoes all the way out till they stop the wheels from spinning, then a click or two back until the brakes just drag. Then check your pedal play.

I had one master that just wouldn't work and returned it for another. Then another. Then I had enough and bought a German master and a set of front disc conversions and never looked back!
Click to expand...

thats how I adjust drums I let them drag a little this time.

I ran two quarts of fluid through till it was pure clean and no bubbles
 
delbertinie

delbertinie

Member
tomorrow I am going to replace all the steel Line. I got another master install got good flow when I bleed but still no real pressure. So I'm going to replace all the steel line. It's got to be sucking air from somewhere.
 
B

Brett Proctor

Well-known member
Maybe the slave cylinders are bad. If your going through all of the trouble of replacing lines and master cylinders you might want to check into rebuilding or replaceing the slave cylinders also. Why have a weak link in the system. New ones are around $12 each

Brett

I just read your first post and you said your going to replace them so never mind.

I guess I should read the whole post before I make a comment. Sorry
 
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delbertinie

delbertinie

Member
Bret so far I dressed the drums, replaced all wheel cylinders. New shoes, new brake hardware.
New rubber hoses, new steel lines, and now three masters two rebuilt and now one new master, two new brake light sensors.

Yes I did bench bleed the masters I even immersed the masters in brake fluid to bench bleed.
The problem consistantly is pressure in the rear no real pressure in the front.
I have went to the trouble of teflon taping all of the joints and tripple checked them for tightness.

I have adjusted all the drums to the point that they drag just enough to make a little noise.

Tonight I re-bench bleed the new master and I will bleed tomorrow. I have vacuum bled the system in the past ,since I'm by myself. Tomorrow I am going to try gravity bleeding this time.

What is the bolt in the center of the master for. On the original master I opened it. It almost looks like a bleed hole between the two pumps.

At this point I am getting frustrated
the last master is a beck- arney........ new one.
 
B

Brett Proctor

Well-known member
What is the bolt in the center of the master for
Click to expand...

If its the one I'm thinking about its a stop screw for the front piston assy. You have a piston for the front and one for the rear to pump fluid. They did it that way so if one circuit failed you would still have brakes.


This maybe a dumb question but is the front section getting fluid to it. No kinks in the feed line to it that would starve it for fluid.

Brett
 
letterman7

letterman7

Honorary Admin
Or, it could be something as simple as the brake plunger isn't set correctly. How much free play do you have on the pedal before you feel it hit the internal plunger? Shouldn't be more than 3/8"...
 
delbertinie

delbertinie

Member
Brett Proctor said:
If its the one I'm thinking about its a stop screw for the front piston assy. You have a piston for the front and one for the rear to pump fluid. They did it that way so if one circuit failed you would still have brakes.


This maybe a dumb question but is the front section getting fluid to it. No kinks in the feed line to it that would starve it for
Brett
Click to expand...

No Brett all new lines steel and rubber
 
delbertinie

delbertinie

Member
letterman7 said:
Or, it could be something as simple as the brake plunger isn't set correctly. How much free play do you have on the pedal before you feel it hit the internal plunger? Shouldn't be more than 3/8"...
Click to expand...

hmm that I will check.
I don't think there is any free play in the pedal.
 
delbertinie

delbertinie

Member
letterman7 said:
*thumbs up* Right. The pedal at the top should equal 3/8 or so.
Click to expand...

ok explain this concept to me not quite understanding. The pedal return spring holds the pedal forward. Then the plunger rod should be set 1mm away from the plunger itself.

Now is the 3/8 the travel from the return position to the floor. If that is the case IT IS way the heck off.
 
delbertinie

delbertinie

Member
Ok boys now that we got that out of the way

Here is the the latest turn of events.

Went and bought a new trw master installed it. They said it was not necessary to bench bleed it.
Returned the other crap. VeeVilliage sold me this one. One big difference this one is an inch bore the others were 3/4 inch bore.

Ok I have a lot more pressure and some pedal. BUT the fronts still won't lock up.
I wonder if they gave me the wrong diameter wheel cylinders too.
And yes the shoes are set where they drag.

I am real sure that the plunger is set wrong. I think its set too deep.

The thing that bothers me is that I don't have any real feel on the pedal yet even though I am getting decent flow when I bleed.
 
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